Main Lesson: a moderate degree of suffering can lead to more positive personal development. While significantly traumatic experiences can as well but are not worth the long-term negative mental consequences.
An example of this can be abuse from parents or relatives. You can grow up and think, “Oh, when I get older, I’m going to treat my own kids better” but you can also develop side effects such as anxiety, depression, and more things that can cause you to be unstable. There are goods and bads in every action taken.
There was a scene that never got filmed in Saw III where Jigsaw breaks down crying because he realises that he’s going to be remembered as just a murderer, that they will twist his legacy and turn his work into one of hurt instead of healing, that he may have ultimately been wrong. I wish they did keep that scene in, that would have been a lot better than the “Jigsaw is right” crap from the later films and Jigsaw having lowkey brainwashing powers with everyone who survives his traps suddenly devoting their lives to him.
because i think the realization of his appreciation of life didn’t hit him until he suffered through trying to commit suicide. adding on to the belief that a traumatic experience (example his suicide attempt) would change your outlook on life.
Kinda missing out the part where Amanda became a self harmer and a murderer after being tested, Hoffman became a narcissistic, psychopath and a load of the survivors at the therapy sessions were evidently miserable hahaha
Amanda also became a psychopath as well. She used inescapable death traps on innocent people (the worst of which was the Angel trap on Allison Kerry) for no good reason. All of Jigsaw’s apprentices (except Gordon) are WAY worse than he is.
I think with the release of Saw X we get more insight into how Amanda became that way. During *that* movie- which takes place between Saw 1 and 2, she clearly believes in the cause. But during the events of the game she struggles to do what is necessary at first, but ultimately has this mentality after the movie due to what transpired when she truly saw how utterly evil and irredeemable the subjects (two specific people here) really were.
I think he purposefully didn’t mention that so that the misleading narrative of the video could work up until 11:30 where he finally mentions that torture does not, in fact, help your life
@EXTRA_ELZZZ instead of asking for subs i strongly recommend making content based on the current hype on RUclips. RUclipsrs like kreekcraft have had their subs doubled in months based on what games they covered.animations do well aswell as gameplay like among us or certain games on roblox aswell as first person shooters like apex and rainbow six seige. From what I know influence and quality is everything on yt . That's all I have In terms of advice ,hope this helps :)
Jigsaw Matt: (Threatens to reveal my entire search history) Me who uses incognito mode because I like the dark theme: I am four parallel universe ahead of you.
Honestly, the fact that the survivors of his traps turned out better from the experience could just be treated as an unrealistic aspect of the franchise, and imo should. People might experience a measure of personal growth as a result of the traps, but I would argue that realistically, the harm and trauma they would experience far outweighs any personal growth they achieve.
Jigsaw be the type of person to say "your trauma helped you grow". And like a wise tumblr user once said: "the only thing that shouldve helped me grow was milk and vegetables"
I also really like that the whole reason Jigsaw does this stuff is because he can. He knows that there is nothing to stop him. The cops are so corrupt that as long as he can hand them some cash and say "yo hush up" he'll be fine. And its not like anyone will miss such corrupt people. He could have just started a therapy group or something, but no. He is such a unique and complex villain and it's so fricking awsome.
Jigsaw makes me think of any abuser that say they act out of love. That you'll be tougher for it. And if you do survive and are "tougher" then you were, they take credit for it. Its like you breaking someone's arm and taking credit for it healing, instead of the doctors and loved ones that help them through it. Critical Role actually addressed this during a game: "Pain doesn't make people; it's love that makes people. The pain is inconsequential; it's love that saves them."
@@sonzu-officialmusicchannel640 Chance of getting thrown off a cliff at birth, almost 0 life outside of fighting, child rape, Extremeley high abuse, high death rate.. Yeah you can count me out.
I love that matpat acknowledged PTSD. It causes so much cognitive issues too. I can't even look at a foggy window, I'll probably never drive, and my day to day life is so much harder now because I need to walk with a cane. There's nothing good about trauma.
Little suggestion for theory videos: "cloudy with a chance of meatballs" Like, it's possible to make an machine that transform water into food? What problems would a food rain cause to the environment? And the economy? It's a lot of questions.
Yes at the end of the day Jigsaw can be seen as a murderous psychopath like any other horror villain, but his unique ideology and backstory for why he does what he does, is why he’s my #1 favorite horror villain. Great video by the way MatPat, I enjoyed watching it!
@@The-Key-System I think the implacation is that the government is watching you through the television... Not that its true, but if you ever want to commit a major felony, do it in front of a tv.
I'm less worried about governments than the megacorporations. China might be a tad abusive toward it's people, and any neighbor they can bully into becoming their people, but Google is on the path to literal world domination. Google has no borders.
The first symbol appears at 1:52 on the word Your The 2nd symbol appears at 4:17 on the TV so I'm assuming that means the word Tv The 3rd symbol appeard at 8:07 on the word Is The 4th symbol appears at 8:52 on the word Studying And finally, the 5th and last symbol appears at 12:14 on the person which I'm guessing represents You because of the quote "(You) decide to take that class that you always wanted to" and because the symbol appears on the person taking the class which is reffering to the "You" in the quote. The final sentance states: Your Tv is Studying You.
"Your intire browser history will be exposed to everyone in your contacts" Me: *+ Deletes my contacts +* Mat Saw: That's not how you are supposed to play the fricking game-
I have complex PTSD (four years into recovery, yay me) and I'm a survivor of attempted homicide and I can confirm that I have ended up with a greater appreciation for life and the little moments, I have a much more open mind to people down on their luck, I prioritize my health and happiness more than anything else and I have a greater sense of purpose. But it wasn't always like that. I had and still have disabling mental problems. I struggle holding down jobs, my trauma manifests with visual and auditory hallucinations, there are times where what happened to me feels like it's still happening over and over again. Early in my recovery, it was all pain and struggle without all the positives I experience now. People tend to take the outlook of "Oh, but it made you stronger!" And I argue that while it did in some aspects later down the line, ultimately, I (and everyone else in a similar place) deserved much better. Having a greater appreciation of life is good, but it's easier to navigate life when you don't have ghosts from the past breathing down your neck, figuratively, literally or through a hallucination LOL It's also worth it to mention that not everyone who has developed PTSD gets help or identifies that they have it. When you can't navigate through it and have no one to guide you, some people tend to reap much more negative than positive, like an intense distrust of others, outbursts that could harm themselves or others or a terrible outlook on life to name a few general ones. I know that's where I was before my PTSD was identified or being treated.
All of the data you've deleted and all of the things you did in incognito is still stored in a google server. The only way to truly be safe is to use a vpn.
Only if it has a recording device such as smart TVs of nowadays the old turn-based dial TVs did not have camera-based technology or recording technology integrated into them so it had to be the television itself.
Here are the swirls if anyone wants to know: 1:51 the swirls is behind the word "your". 4:14 the swirl is on the tv. 8:08 the swirl is behind "is". 8:53 the swirl is behind "studying". 12:16 the swirl is on the person representing "you". Your TV is studying you. Thanks for reading this!
Notice the swirl is behind the O in the word "your" id say slash off the R and leave it as "you" another word for an old tv is a "tube tv" that leads me to believe the answer to the riddle is "you tube is studying you."
Since he talked about this being a team game, and in case you missed a word, here you go lads: Word 1) Your - 1:53 Word 2) Television - 4:27 Word 3) Is - 8:05 Word 4) Studying - 8:52 Word 5) You - 12:13 Final Phrase: *_"Your Television (TV) is studying you"_* Our browser history of random questionable facts we learned from MatPat that put us on the FBI watchlist is safe! *Edit:* wrong timestamp on word 5 fixed.
"Your intire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts." Good luck finding my browsing history. I've been hiding it to my mother for years after I got caught watching RUclips way to long.
Someone that was very close to me was a survivor of the Las Vegas shooting about 3 years ago. They said that they literally had to climb past dead bodies when they were trying to escape, and it definitely did not have a positive impact on their life. It took them around two years to finally get over it. And in those two year they were constantly paranoid and looking over their shoulder even in their own home. Also anything even remotely loud or resembling a gunshot would trigger them and make them freak out.
Well obviously but Jigsaws goal was to make PEOPLE appreciate life. Im not trying to sound insensitive but im sure after what your friend saw and expirience, he realized how lucky he is.
@@Yunaschesirekat But the problem is that "realizing how lucky you are" isn't worth PTSD and paranoia for the rest of your life. Severe trauma _really_ fucks people up, and there just isn't a valid argument that the positive outcomes of it outweigh the negative ones.
The thing is, even if you put aside how messed up it is to put peoples lives on the line as a way of “bettering“ their lives, jigsaw isn’t even consistent with these methods. There’s a lot of people put into his game that are left in traps that are literally impossible to overcome. How are their lives in proved? And even if you try arguing that “that isn’t there to improve their lives, but to make the other participants happy they didn’t get put in that trap“ that defeats the purpose of trying to improve someone’s life if it means ending someone else’s. Not to mention that the survivors are most likely going to have to deal with survivors guilt
I agree with some of the takes on this philosophy of trauma. I went through deep emotional hardship and I can genuinely say that the realisation I gained was worth the many months of severe distress, the challenging (and still ongoing) recovery and the activation of my predisposition to IBS. But in this case, I wold say it worked just for me, and only because I wasn't traumatised, just deeply hurt. I think I experienced a pretty lucky hardship all said. Getting out with an iron-clad sense of self and knowing exactly what you want to do with your life at the age of only 17 was pretty nice, and my medical and other issues are made easily manageable with medication and care. So I agree that huge, life-changing realisation can come from situations of hardship that you aren't yet equipped to deal with. But I also think that suffering to the extent of real trauma isn't worth it because there is a lot of suffering that the mind is never equipped to deal with, which can, one way or another, lead to death (suicide, emotional distress leading to heart failure, panic attacks, activation of genetic diseases due to mental health weakening the immune system, spiralling out of control and taking out their trauma on people via murder and torture and such).
“Your entire browser history will be sent so everyone in your contacts” My history: what does water taste like? What does air taste like? Baby cabbage Am I stewpid?
As someone who has ptsd, ive seen many books and therapists saying that people say it was for the better is a way of coping. Telling yourself that it happened for a reason or that you changed for the better makes it more bearable to live with and feel less like it was all for nothing. Just suffering for the sake of suffering. So even if jigsaw was right, its only because certain people happen to cope that way, not because its a fact of trauma.
Mind you, Amanda's story line became that she didn't believe anyone could really change so she sabatoged all the traps to be unwillable so the person would ultimately die.
Matt: ”Your search history will be exposed to everyone... Me: ”Oh, no” Matt: ”To your contact list” Me: *”OH NO”* Edit: Tysm, for the likes guys! This is the most I ever got on a comment lol.
MatPat: Your entire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts... Me over here with no shame at all and only 6 contacts: I feel bad for my contacts...
One major problem I've always had with the Saw franchise is that Jigsaw judges who didn't appreciate / wasted their life by his own standards. Ok the photographer was a private eye who helped catch cheating spouses etc, but he still made a successful career using something he was talented at.
Very few of the people he puts into traps deserve to be there in my opinion. Lynn from Saw 3 was withdrawn from her family and taking anti-depressants due to the tragic death of her son but Jigsaw forces her into a collar that will blow off her head if she can’t keep him alive. Or Joyce in Saw 3D who is roasted alive simply because her husband was a liar, she had no idea he was lying about being a jigsaw victim. But in a way it makes the world of Saw much scarier, because if you aren’t living your life according to jigsaw’s views you could wake up with a reverse bear trap on your head.
I had a moment there where I was sitting there like "He's not actually going to say trauma makes people better" and then he didn't and I was like "oh thank god"
Well no, because it kind of like repairing a broken bowl. Sure it works again, and sometimes it may look even better. But it’s still permanently damaged.
Im anxious, therefore empathetic. But also therefore I don’t socially engage as often, I can babble nonsense because I don’t want dead air, and that’s just the ways I affect other people.
Pain promotes growth, but too much of anything is bad for you. I once heard that you can go insane without ever realizing it. I think that’s what happened to John after his failed suicide attempt. I think John went insane, didn’t realize it and mistook it for an epiphany.
@@eastereggggg You can make a profile in Firefox that never saves history, cookies, or anything. Useful for when you are doing research on different sauces for your meat.
Another thing you can say about John Kramer not exactly getting the implementation of his ideology correct is this: he wasn’t fair to everyone. Adam won his game and was still left for dead, the one dude that Amanda had to cut open had to die for Amanda to live, the flammable jelly guy was given a near impossible task, the guy in the drill chair was never given a game before Sing had to save his life, and that’s just the first movie. If John wanted to improve people’s lives effectively, everyone should get the same chance. Theoretically, if he found a trap that worked, he should put everyone in the same one. But he didn’t, he used a different trap each time because he enjoyed playing God and seeing them suffer
He's just a villain who tried to use some vague intellectual-sounding philosophy to make it seem like he has a reason for killing people beyond just that he likes it.
@@ShadeSlayer1911 even up until Amanda failed her test at the end of 3, he seemed to truly believe in his ideology. That’s what makes him interesting. He truly believed he was changing peoples’ lives for the better
@@GabeR115 much like Thanos, I think the real interesting thing about Cramer as a character is how effectively he convinced others, both their own followers and people who watched the movies, that they truly believed their bs. Because Thanos showed in his very next movie that all that "save the universe by killing half of it" was just a front, but still people were convinced that he was genuine. I think Kramer is very similar in this aspect.
@@ShadeSlayer1911 Thanos WAS still genuine. The Avengers made him change his mind on his plan. He believed that if he did the snap, people would realize that what he did was meant to help them and they would be grateful. When they went through enough effort to go back in time and undo it, he realized people would never see eye-to-eye with him and he’d have to create an entire new universe where people didn’t remember or could find out what he did. Instead of thinking that his idea might be wrong, he clung to it so hard he was willing to destroy what he was originally trying to save
@@GabeR115 Out-of-universe, it's also because Thano's ideology has been dumbed down. In the comics (referenced in The Avengers post-credit), Thanos is in love with the cosmic entity in charge of Death, so killing people was its own goal. The MCU switched to "half the required resources" which not only can hilariously be solved in the same way as the gauntlet can do anything *including doubling the ressources* , but the simple fact that lifeforms reproduce make this halving temporary.
Jigsaw MatPat: “I will leak your ENTIRE search history to your closest family and friends!” Me who uses Incognito Mode all day everyday: “It’s a simple spell, but quite unbreakable.”
SUPRISE! I am the funniest YTer evah!!!! Just kidding, it was no surprise. Everybody knew already. HAHAHHAHA!!!! That was an amazing joke (it was real talk though). WAWAWAWAWA!!!! Good afternoon, dear caden
This example of enhancement rings true for everyone or a great deal of people, for an example, when uncle ben dies and spidey decides to be a hero from it
Got any one wondering the timing for the code is 1:54 Your 4:19 TV (television) 8:07 Is 8:52 Studying 12:14 you (as he refers to “you” as this pops up) I hope this helped!
Main Lesson: a moderate degree of suffering can lead to more positive personal development. While significantly traumatic experiences can as well but are not worth the long-term negative mental consequences.
So the best way to live is to have mildly sucky points in life, like almost dying to a shark attack every once in a while
Moderate degree of suffering like cutting your arm off and digging through your eye for a key
Now to find myself a moderate degree of suffering i guess
You smart
The key to everything is balance.
The part where she says “the best thing that happened to me, when cutting off my arm lets me use the handicap parking” Got Me Cracked Up
If anybody gets to see my search history then that's their own problem not mine
@@8-bitmichael781 amen
It was her fault at the first place. Making people do in debts, just for the greed of money. Heck she still continued knowing Jigsaw was out there.
lol
@@8-bitmichael781 exactly
"Your entire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts."
*laughs in loneliness*
Yep
@@sekoseko2165 bot
@@sekoseko2165 shut
*my church leader is in my contacts*
😶😮
People who use private tabs: "Hehehe you got nothing."
“Your entire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts”
Me deleting my entire contact list: it was time for a change anyways
My search history is “Pictures of Toothless with human feet”
Plot twist: your contacts list was for everyone to send you $1000.00 for solving the puzzle... Thanks for playing lol!
My mom: hi sweetie
Me *after deleting all my contacts*: who dis?
people would get bored of my search history after seeing the 15th google for a different type of mushroom
That still leavs
An example of this can be abuse from parents or relatives. You can grow up and think, “Oh, when I get older, I’m going to treat my own kids better” but you can also develop side effects such as anxiety, depression, and more things that can cause you to be unstable. There are goods and bads in every action taken.
Guy who got his stomach torn open: "Glad I helped Amanda get over her drug addiction."
I mean, he failed his game, that’s why he was put into her game. Had nothing to do with her
Lmfao
He was already dead
@@Roach1 well that's terrifying!
Sometimes you have to really do something extreme to help a friend
Matpat should make a theory on how much money Phineas and Ferb spent that one summer.
Would be interesting
@@airplanes_aren.t_real I agree
Nice bro
I have never heard a greater idea
True
There was a scene that never got filmed in Saw III where Jigsaw breaks down crying because he realises that he’s going to be remembered as just a murderer, that they will twist his legacy and turn his work into one of hurt instead of healing, that he may have ultimately been wrong. I wish they did keep that scene in, that would have been a lot better than the “Jigsaw is right” crap from the later films and Jigsaw having lowkey brainwashing powers with everyone who survives his traps suddenly devoting their lives to him.
God, that would've been SUCH a good scene, and probably would've redeemed the Saw series in mh eyes tbh
That would have seriously fleshed out Jigsaw as a character and give evidence of some form of moral compass within him. We needed this in a movie lol
dude its so sad like he want to help people and realises that he killed so much...
because i think the realization of his appreciation of life didn’t hit him until he suffered through trying to commit suicide. adding on to the belief that a traumatic experience (example his suicide attempt) would change your outlook on life.
Stockholm syndrome is a real thing
Kinda missing out the part where Amanda became a self harmer and a murderer after being tested, Hoffman became a narcissistic, psychopath and a load of the survivors at the therapy sessions were evidently miserable hahaha
11:30
Amanda also became a psychopath as well. She used inescapable death traps on innocent people (the worst of which was the Angel trap on Allison Kerry) for no good reason. All of Jigsaw’s apprentices (except Gordon) are WAY worse than he is.
I think with the release of Saw X we get more insight into how Amanda became that way. During *that* movie- which takes place between Saw 1 and 2, she clearly believes in the cause. But during the events of the game she struggles to do what is necessary at first, but ultimately has this mentality after the movie due to what transpired when she truly saw how utterly evil and irredeemable the subjects (two specific people here) really were.
I think he purposefully didn’t mention that so that the misleading narrative of the video could work up until 11:30 where he finally mentions that torture does not, in fact, help your life
5 words: “All Marked With This Symbol”
Nailed it.
Saw your TV is
5 words...
I thought the words were "But that's just a Theory"
@EXTRA_ELZZZ instead of asking for subs i strongly recommend making content based on the current hype on RUclips. RUclipsrs like kreekcraft have had their subs doubled in months based on what games they covered.animations do well aswell as gameplay like among us or certain games on roblox aswell as first person shooters like apex and rainbow six seige. From what I know influence and quality is everything on yt . That's all I have In terms of advice ,hope this helps :)
ngl thats acually super big brain
I think it’s supposed to be “Your TV is studying you”
Jigsaw Matt: (Threatens to reveal my entire search history)
Me who uses incognito mode because I like the dark theme: I am four parallel universe ahead of you.
Lol ;)
Good sir google has already done it for ya
Incognito mode doesnt stop the cookies tho. So can still be found
The FBI still tracks it down tho
It’s just because he likes the dark theme.
The secret message is “your tv is studying you” or “your tv is studding people”… I think
Thank you!
You TV IS studying you?
YOUR TV IS STUDYING PEOPLE???
WOW! This GOT Deep 😅
“Your entire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts...”
Welp I guess grandma’s about to learn what fanfics are
ummmmmm......................
Wait will they get my private browsing history
@@kaliah6410 google already has
Reported
All they’re going to see are spellings of common words cause I’m dyslexic
everything in your search history can be explained by "i'm writing a book". EVERYTHING.
Same
Interesting
Or delete your [search] history
Oh thank you, I’ll use this excuse when the cops show up
Even “what do people do with amputated limbs?” Yes I looked that up at about 2:00 am last summer :/
Honestly, the fact that the survivors of his traps turned out better from the experience could just be treated as an unrealistic aspect of the franchise, and imo should.
People might experience a measure of personal growth as a result of the traps, but I would argue that realistically, the harm and trauma they would experience far outweighs any personal growth they achieve.
Exactly
"Your entire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts."
Me: *Laughs in incognito mode*
Also Me: *Laughs in lack of friends*
I would go to jail for everything
Laughs in lack of phone
@Just some Forest Ranger with Internet Access What are these...friends, you speak of?
Me: *laughs in no one ever talking to me through SMS*
Fax I have no one on contact list
5 words aye?
"I use incognito mode Sooooooooo..."
not engoth
@@rambo8863 1. I
2. use
3. incognito
4. mode
5. sooooooooooo
it is too enough
Google got in trouble for looking at Incino mode history
I use nordvpn get rek
i actually found them sooooooo
Jigsaw be the type of person to say "your trauma helped you grow". And like a wise tumblr user once said: "the only thing that shouldve helped me grow was milk and vegetables"
🙌
*If this was on Netflix, the Film Theorist would get cancelled for even suggesting this was helping people at all.*
Dang jigsaw you just killing bad people
I dont think there is such a thing as a "wise" tumblr user.
@@mrree8043 at least we have nice shoelaces
I also really like that the whole reason Jigsaw does this stuff is because he can. He knows that there is nothing to stop him. The cops are so corrupt that as long as he can hand them some cash and say "yo hush up" he'll be fine. And its not like anyone will miss such corrupt people. He could have just started a therapy group or something, but no. He is such a unique and complex villain and it's so fricking awsome.
Isn't his paying off of cops not a contradiction to his philosophies tho? If he's so against corruption, why would he do that?
Jigsaw never bribed the police. One of his accomplices is a detective who helped keep the cops off his trail, but Jigsaw never paid any bribes.
“Your entrie browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts”
People who delete all of their history: I don’t have such weakness
*laughs in incognito*
Smart
Except for the FBI and Google
*Authorities laughing*
Omg same:)
“Your entire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts” guess it’s time to go into permanent creative mode
Yep
Jokes on you i use incognito mode so my history isn't kept
*YOU FOOL!*
*I HAVE SEVENTY ALTERNATIVE ACCOUNTS!*
@@haunted1659 it’s just not kept to your knowledge lol
@@hoggle9415 I have SEVENTY ALTERNATIVE ACCOUNTS
"Your TV is studying you"
*Slowly rotates head to the general direction of the TV*
“Welcom To Primetime”
I’ll study you then
HEAD ROTATE
@Isrel156 it is the age of digital streaming, basically wireless cable
*does a 180° head turn then does another turn to look at my screen again*
Trauma may help some people but overall, as anyone with ptsd can tell you, it’s not worth it.
I'm amazed you said “Your entire browser history will be sent to everyone in your contacts list”
and still missed the opportunity for a VPN sponsor
Haha, very true😂
No cap tho😂😂
Hm yes😂😂😂
It just blows my mind how consistent Matpat is in creating content for years now.
Ok
Yes, also, you again
This man has 70 alternative accounts
ik right hes a great content creator
I am incredibly thankful for it
1:54 - Your
4:15 - TV
8:06 - Is
8:52 - Studying
12:15 - You
You’re a genius
@River Heinze is yhe finale s is someone?
@River Heinze what was the final s?
@River Heinze wait but its on a guy forhead. Or more like "your" forhead (get it)😉
oh ok your tv is stdying you thats wierd
"Handicapped parking at the d*mn mall!"
😱😱😱 I loved her emotion!
"Your TV is studying you"
Well, hope it gets a good grade!
I got a better one Your TV is studying forehead
Your tv is studying improv
@@WarmasterWirMustard I was thinking if Mat ever gave a name to him and the name John came up for absolutely no reason. So
You TV is studying John
I got what you got and your tv is studying ahead
I agree
Billy Pat: "Everyone will know your browser history if you fail this test!"
Incognito browsers: "Are you really in charge here?"
Mass perverts : friends
69 like ayyy
Incognito still let's your internet provide r so not much really changes
I just get a new computer every time I use the internet and destroy the used ones by launching them into the sun
government: its funny how dumb you are
Jigsaw makes me think of any abuser that say they act out of love. That you'll be tougher for it. And if you do survive and are "tougher" then you were, they take credit for it. Its like you breaking someone's arm and taking credit for it healing, instead of the doctors and loved ones that help them through it.
Critical Role actually addressed this during a game: "Pain doesn't make people; it's love that makes people. The pain is inconsequential; it's love that saves them."
Ngl adapting to jigsaws mindset would lead us back to the spartan era where babies are tested, but this time not just the guys ;/
@@bryce4650 I meaaaaan. Idk. Could be fun for a decade or so.
Deep
@@sonzu-officialmusicchannel640 Chance of getting thrown off a cliff at birth, almost 0 life outside of fighting, child rape, Extremeley high abuse, high death rate.. Yeah you can count me out.
@@D.Wolf6030 c'mon live a little lol.
I love that matpat acknowledged PTSD. It causes so much cognitive issues too. I can't even look at a foggy window, I'll probably never drive, and my day to day life is so much harder now because I need to walk with a cane. There's nothing good about trauma.
I’m sorry. If I may ask what happened to you? I’m sorry if this brings up bad memories but I’m genuinely curious about what caused your trauma.
JigPat: "Let's play a game. Your entire search and browsing history.."
Me: Do it coward. I have no shame
I'm betting on the amount of confusion and shock will be plenty of time to give me a head start.
With fbi software
Lol what search history
Well time to clear my search history
Agreed
Little suggestion for theory videos: "cloudy with a chance of meatballs"
Like, it's possible to make an machine that transform water into food? What problems would a food rain cause to the environment? And the economy? It's a lot of questions.
Yes the perfect video
this is such a good idea
“Your entire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts.”
I don’t have a browsing history, I use incognito mode!
same!
Well my history is logged in a locked chest on hypixel
I use Duck Duck Go!
I am truly invisible 'cause I repeatedly delete my browsing history to save storage space and I don't use google (I know)
Yes you don't have your history saved, but incognito doesn't prevent ghost files that do exist
Yes at the end of the day Jigsaw can be seen as a murderous psychopath like any other horror villain, but his unique ideology and backstory for why he does what he does, is why he’s my #1 favorite horror villain. Great video by the way MatPat, I enjoyed watching it!
"Your entire search history will be sent to everyone"
Me: **Laughs in Rick Roll**
I have no search history and I use nord vpn
The smartest rickroll
@@steam453elegant9 hes to powerful to be kept alive
Me: *Laughs in polish cow*
You need to have contacts for that to be scary
The secret code is, "Your TV is studying you."
You're welcome.
Thank you I didn’t want to put effort into finding it
Wat, why would it wanna study me? I'm boring af
@@The-Key-System I think the implacation is that the government is watching you through the television...
Not that its true, but if you ever want to commit a major felony, do it in front of a tv.
@@Caaarl_ okay, got it! I'll make sure of that xD
@@SteiveStrong i tried
“Your entire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts in 1 hour.”
**Deletes everyone from my contacts**
Greats idea ever
Hahahaha. I don't need to worry because I don't have anyone in my contacts
Genius.
Outstanding move
Big brain
Jigsaw: i want people to appreciate life
Also jigsaw: puts a guy in a nearly impossible trap for missing work to enjoy life
jigsaw:slightest inconvenience i want to play a game
"Your TV is studying you"
Yeah yeah, as if our phone camera's weren't enough for the government.
Here are the times
Your 1:50
Tv 4:20
Is 8:06
Studying 8:56
You 12:14
@@Sam_995 Studying is actually 8:52
Y- your TV is studying you!
I'm less worried about governments than the megacorporations. China might be a tad abusive toward it's people, and any neighbor they can bully into becoming their people, but Google is on the path to literal world domination. Google has no borders.
Lmao
The first symbol appears at 1:52 on the word Your
The 2nd symbol appears at 4:17 on the TV so I'm assuming that means the word Tv
The 3rd symbol appeard at 8:07 on the word Is
The 4th symbol appears at 8:52 on the word Studying
And finally, the 5th and last symbol appears at 12:14 on the person which I'm guessing represents You because of the quote "(You) decide to take that class that you always wanted to" and because the symbol appears on the person taking the class which is reffering to the "You" in the quote.
The final sentance states: Your Tv is Studying You.
Wow ok I just came in the comments to be smug about spotting that one in 8:07 but I guess there were more😅😂
I didn't find anything
I only saw the one on the dudes forehead
@@MisterMuffinut Same cuz i din't care about it...
Ngl I thought I was the only one who was going to comment the answer.
“Your tv is studying you”
Meanwhile my phone is giving me ads for the thing I thought about for 2 seconds yesterday
Your TV is studying stock image of man
Ikr?
@@TheWorldWideWebTheSqueakuel2 hahaha nice link
internet and phone already study me for commercial and data-driven purposes, sooooo....
@@driftingdruid ikr
Yeah a lot of people miss the point
Trauma doesn't help you grow, you grow despite the trauma
"your tv is studying you"
That's cool but have you ever heard of this disease called "I don't have a face cam"
“Even if I did... I don’t have a face”
🤭
Nah I just tape my cam
wait how... pls tell me how you got that
@@julietlee8305 sure thing. I wanted ps vr and my parents refused to buy it for me, so now I don't have a ps camera, so I now I have the disease
@@julietlee8305 about the words or what he replied
How to beat MatPat in the begining:
DELETE EVERY CONTACT YOU HAVE
It has downloaded your contacts even if you delete it bothing wont change
@@muhammadabdulla3580 just dont have friends
I easily beat him with crusader of the snazzl’s plan I’m sad
easy to beat i dont have friends
you are a GENIUS
"Your intire browser history will be exposed to everyone in your contacts"
Me: *+ Deletes my contacts +*
Mat Saw: That's not how you are supposed to play the fricking game-
Damage is Damaging.
Simple as that.
And Nitche was too stupid too understand that.
Get it?
IQ 100
learn to spell
*fucking
One step ahead of ya.
I have complex PTSD (four years into recovery, yay me) and I'm a survivor of attempted homicide and I can confirm that I have ended up with a greater appreciation for life and the little moments, I have a much more open mind to people down on their luck, I prioritize my health and happiness more than anything else and I have a greater sense of purpose. But it wasn't always like that. I had and still have disabling mental problems. I struggle holding down jobs, my trauma manifests with visual and auditory hallucinations, there are times where what happened to me feels like it's still happening over and over again. Early in my recovery, it was all pain and struggle without all the positives I experience now. People tend to take the outlook of "Oh, but it made you stronger!" And I argue that while it did in some aspects later down the line, ultimately, I (and everyone else in a similar place) deserved much better. Having a greater appreciation of life is good, but it's easier to navigate life when you don't have ghosts from the past breathing down your neck, figuratively, literally or through a hallucination LOL
It's also worth it to mention that not everyone who has developed PTSD gets help or identifies that they have it. When you can't navigate through it and have no one to guide you, some people tend to reap much more negative than positive, like an intense distrust of others, outbursts that could harm themselves or others or a terrible outlook on life to name a few general ones. I know that's where I was before my PTSD was identified or being treated.
Me who uses incognito mode and deletes all my search history: *I dont have such weaknesses*
I use guest tabs, and alternate accounts made specifically for things such as this
Facts tho
I don't even have a friggin phone! Haha😂
@@sarahflerlage9493 honestly same
All of the data you've deleted and all of the things you did in incognito is still stored in a google server. The only way to truly be safe is to use a vpn.
I’m pretty sure if John lived long enough to see Minecraft he would’ve enjoyed the redstone
Ye
Yes, next Mumbo Jumbo - JiggySAWredstoneR
He would have made the best redstone traps ever
"Do you want to play (block)game"
@@MetheusBatanir yes!!! Hermitcraft!!!
"your TV is studying you"
*Me who actually is studying the TV*
Reverse uno!
isn't it your camera is studying you? bc the symbol was on the little camera?
Only if it has a recording device such as smart TVs of nowadays the old turn-based dial TVs did not have camera-based technology or recording technology integrated into them so it had to be the television itself.
mood lmao
*big brain*
"Your tv is studying you" is the code I believe, and it's also somewhat unerving.
thats what i got aswell
JigPat: “Your browser history will be exposed”
Me: laughs in incognito and VPN
E
@@sekoseko2165 shut
Ha it’s in five words
google still sees your history, even with incognito. And wtf would a vpn do? That has nothing to do with browser history
XD
Here are the swirls if anyone wants to know: 1:51 the swirls is behind the word "your". 4:14 the swirl is on the tv. 8:08 the swirl is behind "is". 8:53 the swirl is behind "studying". 12:16 the swirl is on the person representing "you". Your TV is studying you. Thanks for reading this!
Notice the swirl is behind the O in the word "your" id say slash off the R and leave it as "you" another word for an old tv is a "tube tv" that leads me to believe the answer to the riddle is "you tube is studying you."
W-what?😗
@@Enigmatic666 which we already knew
I legit scoured all these comments and nothing sat right but tbh "you tube is studying you" feels like the right answer to me in my gut.
Thanks!
Since he talked about this being a team game, and in case you missed a word, here you go lads:
Word 1) Your - 1:53
Word 2) Television - 4:27
Word 3) Is - 8:05
Word 4) Studying - 8:52
Word 5) You - 12:13
Final Phrase:
*_"Your Television (TV) is studying you"_*
Our browser history of random questionable facts we learned from MatPat that put us on the FBI watchlist is safe!
*Edit:* wrong timestamp on word 5 fixed.
^^^^
🙏 thank you
Thank you fellow citizen
Give this person an award
I got two out of the 5 so I Fogged up
The secret message in this video was: Helping others is something that brings a sense of fulfilment into your own life.
That's way more than 5 words...
Ah the best way to appreciate life. Ptsd and survivors guilt.
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
"Your intire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts." Good luck finding my browsing history. I've been hiding it to my mother for years after I got caught watching RUclips way to long.
Someone that was very close to me was a survivor of the Las Vegas shooting about 3 years ago. They said that they literally had to climb past dead bodies when they were trying to escape, and it definitely did not have a positive impact on their life. It took them around two years to finally get over it. And in those two year they were constantly paranoid and looking over their shoulder even in their own home. Also anything even remotely loud or resembling a gunshot would trigger them and make them freak out.
That must of been so awful for your friend went though and had to witness. But I'm glad to hear that they are recovering/recovered.
I am really sorry that that happened to them. I bet that was horrible.
Well, atleast he's fine now.
Well obviously but Jigsaws goal was to make PEOPLE appreciate life. Im not trying to sound insensitive but im sure after what your friend saw and expirience, he realized how lucky he is.
@@Yunaschesirekat But the problem is that "realizing how lucky you are" isn't worth PTSD and paranoia for the rest of your life. Severe trauma _really_ fucks people up, and there just isn't a valid argument that the positive outcomes of it outweigh the negative ones.
The thing is, even if you put aside how messed up it is to put peoples lives on the line as a way of “bettering“ their lives, jigsaw isn’t even consistent with these methods.
There’s a lot of people put into his game that are left in traps that are literally impossible to overcome. How are their lives in proved?
And even if you try arguing that “that isn’t there to improve their lives, but to make the other participants happy they didn’t get put in that trap“ that defeats the purpose of trying to improve someone’s life if it means ending someone else’s. Not to mention that the survivors are most likely going to have to deal with survivors guilt
“Your TV is studying you”
Probably, considering how many targeted adds it has.
Thats what i got
@@sekoseko2165 but why, why would you do that?
@@ralfie_isepic9641 have no idea why they did that I thought I was going to be rick rolled I'm disappointed
@@ralfie_isepic9641 What did they say? It seems they deleted their comment.
I got: Your flashback is studying improv xD
film theory idea: John Wick: how much time did it take John to learn every skill he posesses
It took him 20 minutes of montage training
DO this!!!!
batman too.. he knows everything 😂😂😂
JigPat: "Let's play a game. Your entire search and browsing history.."
Me: I surrender.
😂🤣🤣😂
i feel bad if no one got ur joke
WOW.......
ruclips.net/video/FSSFgWlDbJU/видео.html
well oh crap I Gues I surrender here have my house my keys my frens everything I have is urs now just pls dont take my browsing history
Lol
Honestly same😥
I agree with some of the takes on this philosophy of trauma. I went through deep emotional hardship and I can genuinely say that the realisation I gained was worth the many months of severe distress, the challenging (and still ongoing) recovery and the activation of my predisposition to IBS. But in this case, I wold say it worked just for me, and only because I wasn't traumatised, just deeply hurt.
I think I experienced a pretty lucky hardship all said. Getting out with an iron-clad sense of self and knowing exactly what you want to do with your life at the age of only 17 was pretty nice, and my medical and other issues are made easily manageable with medication and care.
So I agree that huge, life-changing realisation can come from situations of hardship that you aren't yet equipped to deal with.
But I also think that suffering to the extent of real trauma isn't worth it because there is a lot of suffering that the mind is never equipped to deal with, which can, one way or another, lead to death (suicide, emotional distress leading to heart failure, panic attacks, activation of genetic diseases due to mental health weakening the immune system, spiralling out of control and taking out their trauma on people via murder and torture and such).
“I will send your search history to everyone.”
Jokes on you, I habitually use Incognito Mode for even innocent stuff.
@Quietframe jokes onyou, I can use hormones as an excuse,
@@goose7215 but everyone could use hormones as an excuse
JOKES ON ALL OF YOU, IM JUST SAYING THIS TO GET LIKES
A1 Fuze jokes on you I have your search history.
@Quietframe JOKES ON YOU, I USE A VPN
“Your entire browser history will be sent so everyone in your contacts”
My history:
what does water taste like?
What does air taste like?
Baby cabbage
Am I stewpid?
Water
Cabbage
Yes
@Nenathicc Dwayne Earth?
Water is the only drink were the temperature affects the flavor.
In the words of a great Doctor: "Almost dying doesn't change anything."
HOUSE MD!!!! BEST TV DOCTOR EVER! THERE IS NO COMPETITION!
In the words of a great tv show Doctor*
ruclips.net/video/jEoqPI7FQ0s/видео.html
Hahha
Yeah ikr I agree if u almost die then ur either stressed out or happy ur alive
Finally, a film theory about a villain that doesn't justify that villain or claim, they're doing nothing wrong.
In 1 hour your browser history gets sent to all your contacts.
Bold of you to assume I have friends to be disturbed by my history.
*Bold of you to assume I have friends
@@mauritsbuskens6595 *Bold of you to assume
that one girl who had to cut off her arm while watching this
"LOOK AT MY ARM."
"WHAT WAS I SOPPSOED TO LEARN:
Gahahahah
She was supposed to learn how amazing handicapped parking was
Ha true ^^
"Your television is studying you"
It's probably mad at me for playing Warframe so much
You and i are alike, bound through the powers of the Void.
Bot in the comments alert
@@detectivecatfromdiscord5047 Oi im made of flesh you know (mostly).
Eyy, a fellow tenno
Tennos where you at?? :D
As someone who has ptsd, ive seen many books and therapists saying that people say it was for the better is a way of coping. Telling yourself that it happened for a reason or that you changed for the better makes it more bearable to live with and feel less like it was all for nothing. Just suffering for the sake of suffering. So even if jigsaw was right, its only because certain people happen to cope that way, not because its a fact of trauma.
Mind you, Amanda's story line became that she didn't believe anyone could really change so she sabatoged all the traps to be unwillable so the person would ultimately die.
Didn't she also start cutting herself in Saw III?
Actually Amanda would never change because she's a drug addict and she neglected jigsaws teachings
Matt: ”Your search history will be exposed to everyone...
Me: ”Oh, no”
Matt: ”To your contact list”
Me: *”OH NO”*
Edit: Tysm, for the likes guys! This is the most I ever got on a comment lol.
Me, who's been listening to yagami yato
MWAHAHAHAHAHA
I USE INCOGNITO MODE SO I DON’T HAVE SUCH WEAKNESSES
@@calcifaudios2746
What about you uhhm search the internet for ‘information’ about Himiko and Ururaka?
@@demonictogaaftoncipherstar4271 nah, more like kachaan and todo
@@calcifaudios2746
Wow u really gunna dump Ururaka like that?
MatPat: Your entire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts...
Me over here with no shame at all and only 6 contacts: I feel bad for my contacts...
WOW...................
ruclips.net/video/FSSFgWlDbJU/видео.html
Next thing you know, Matt Patt's gonna start testing his theory on people who didn't subscribe.
"Your TV is studying you" that is the five words
Ty
Good
Thanks we can’t see mine
How did you get that? I wanna know just to see if I can find it too
@@bigeyepotato5815 rewatch the video while looking for that green spiral at the same time, and if you're generous put a time stamp for each one.
“Your entire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts...”
Can't have contacts if I don't have friends.
@Mason Burns What if he don't have family??? HMMMM?? 😂jk
One major problem I've always had with the Saw franchise is that Jigsaw judges who didn't appreciate / wasted their life by his own standards. Ok the photographer was a private eye who helped catch cheating spouses etc, but he still made a successful career using something he was talented at.
Very few of the people he puts into traps deserve to be there in my opinion. Lynn from Saw 3 was withdrawn from her family and taking anti-depressants due to the tragic death of her son but Jigsaw forces her into a collar that will blow off her head if she can’t keep him alive. Or Joyce in Saw 3D who is roasted alive simply because her husband was a liar, she had no idea he was lying about being a jigsaw victim. But in a way it makes the world of Saw much scarier, because if you aren’t living your life according to jigsaw’s views you could wake up with a reverse bear trap on your head.
@@warrickgirl37 Lynn was also cheating on her husband so there's that.
Everyone judges everyone else by their own standards
Omg I loved Adam. He didn’t deserve to die. He was actually doing a good thing by catching cheaters, he wasn’t even a bad guy.
I don’t get how catching cheaters is a bad thing, when in fact it’s a good thing. Maybe that was the irony in the film.
Your tv is studying you. That is the code. Now Matpat, DO NOT GIVE MY SEARCH HISTORY TO EVERYONE IN MY CONTACTS.
I had a moment there where I was sitting there like "He's not actually going to say trauma makes people better" and then he didn't and I was like "oh thank god"
It does though (in a way kinda)
Well no, because it kind of like repairing a broken bowl. Sure it works again, and sometimes it may look even better. But it’s still permanently damaged.
The thing is he was saying that the entire episode
@@catcat1088 no
Im anxious, therefore empathetic. But also therefore I don’t socially engage as often, I can babble nonsense because I don’t want dead air, and that’s just the ways I affect other people.
“I had a reverse card” there are your five words, good luck
Me to
@the boi mat pat
Mine too
Me to
@@user-ee7hr8xg5w your mom
Your tv is studying you
Me who’s lonely:”A potential friend?!”
Bro tell me why I thought it was "your tv is studying improv". Im fucking dumb
your FBI agent loves you
Hahhahhaahhha
I was thinking the message was "Your technology is studying you." But I suppose that's just the same thing worded differently.
I thought it was "Your flashback is studying your improv"...
Pain promotes growth, but too much of anything is bad for you.
I once heard that you can go insane without ever realizing it. I think that’s what happened to John after his failed suicide attempt. I think John went insane, didn’t realize it and mistook it for an epiphany.
I like this theory the most!
"youre trauma made you a better, stronger person!"
yeah but it also left me with crippling mental disabilities and trust issues soooooooooo
Same though-
But it's alright, you aren't dead, and your a better person, soooooooooo
To sum it up “Trauma made me better but also, ummmmmm *Traumatized* “
Me too as well
“Your entire browser history will be sent to all your contacts.”
Cool. Maybe then they’ll call me back.
Lmao
Oof
ruclips.net/video/dQw4w9WgXcQ/видео.html
DANGIT
JigPat: “Your browser history will be exposed”
Me: Ha, I don’t even use the internet,.....wait
Me: Which browser history? I got 17 different histories.
For plot. Every single one
Haha jokes on jigpat, I always use incognito browsers whenever I look up anything sus
@@eastereggggg sameeee
@@eastereggggg You can make a profile in Firefox that never saves history, cookies, or anything. Useful for when you are doing research on different sauces for your meat.
"Your tv is studying you"
This is the secret 5 words.
"Your entire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts"
*Video uploaded 5 hours ago*
Me: *sweats nervously*
The hour started when you started the video.
so you want my equations and my empty contacts
Another thing you can say about John Kramer not exactly getting the implementation of his ideology correct is this: he wasn’t fair to everyone. Adam won his game and was still left for dead, the one dude that Amanda had to cut open had to die for Amanda to live, the flammable jelly guy was given a near impossible task, the guy in the drill chair was never given a game before Sing had to save his life, and that’s just the first movie. If John wanted to improve people’s lives effectively, everyone should get the same chance. Theoretically, if he found a trap that worked, he should put everyone in the same one. But he didn’t, he used a different trap each time because he enjoyed playing God and seeing them suffer
He's just a villain who tried to use some vague intellectual-sounding philosophy to make it seem like he has a reason for killing people beyond just that he likes it.
@@ShadeSlayer1911 even up until Amanda failed her test at the end of 3, he seemed to truly believe in his ideology. That’s what makes him interesting. He truly believed he was changing peoples’ lives for the better
@@GabeR115 much like Thanos, I think the real interesting thing about Cramer as a character is how effectively he convinced others, both their own followers and people who watched the movies, that they truly believed their bs.
Because Thanos showed in his very next movie that all that "save the universe by killing half of it" was just a front, but still people were convinced that he was genuine. I think Kramer is very similar in this aspect.
@@ShadeSlayer1911 Thanos WAS still genuine. The Avengers made him change his mind on his plan. He believed that if he did the snap, people would realize that what he did was meant to help them and they would be grateful. When they went through enough effort to go back in time and undo it, he realized people would never see eye-to-eye with him and he’d have to create an entire new universe where people didn’t remember or could find out what he did. Instead of thinking that his idea might be wrong, he clung to it so hard he was willing to destroy what he was originally trying to save
@@GabeR115
Out-of-universe, it's also because Thano's ideology has been dumbed down. In the comics (referenced in The Avengers post-credit), Thanos is in love with the cosmic entity in charge of Death, so killing people was its own goal.
The MCU switched to "half the required resources" which not only can hilariously be solved in the same way as the gauntlet can do anything *including doubling the ressources* , but the simple fact that lifeforms reproduce make this halving temporary.
“Your entire search history will be released”
What’s 4+7?
What does devour mean?
Who’s the first president?
But what does devour mean... 😳
How tall is peppa pig really?
Pepe the frog sleeping mask
Symptoms of insomnia
When does Taco Bell open?
4+7 is 11
Devour means to eat something hungrily or quickly
The first president is George Washingmachine
so basicly all the important things in life
The True question Here Is Whats 4 + 7 again?
Jigsaw: “Trauma helps people grow and change their lives for the better”
PTSD: *I’m about to end this man’s whole career*
Jigsaw MatPat: “I will leak your ENTIRE search history to your closest family and friends!”
Me who uses Incognito Mode all day everyday: “It’s a simple spell, but quite unbreakable.”
SUPRISE! I am the funniest YTer evah!!!! Just kidding, it was no surprise. Everybody knew already. HAHAHHAHA!!!! That was an amazing joke (it was real talk though). WAWAWAWAWA!!!! Good afternoon, dear caden
Lmao😂😂😂👍👍underrated
"Your tv is studying you"
There, now leave my browsing history alone.
@GT_Epicchilo welp guess that worked
"Your entire browsing history will be sent to everyone in your contacts."
*Laughs in incognito*
Incognito is like God I perfect not God tho not god
Because I use private mode in safari literally the only thing in my search history is the iPad pro I was looking at buying a few weeks ago
But your internet provider still sees what you searched you just can’t
*Giggles in alternate account and innocent searches*
@@hoodedy laughs in vpn
This example of enhancement rings true for everyone or a great deal of people, for an example, when uncle ben dies and spidey decides to be a hero from it
Got any one wondering the timing for the code is
1:54 Your
4:19 TV (television)
8:07 Is
8:52 Studying
12:14 you (as he refers to “you” as this pops up)
I hope this helped!
I think it's more for the fact he uses that same person when talking about "you" as the viewer or "you" as a random commenter
Yeah that’s correct
I looked closely and it looked like it said the word "help" on the TV
thanks
I didn't see any of this words at all so I don't know how everyone is seeing your television is studying you
Message: *"Your TV is studying you."*
Me: **glances at TV broken from a power surge** You sure about that?
Now it’s your turn
@@mangomilker9227 ቀኑ እንዴት ነው
“Your TV is studying you”
Me, who almost never watches TV: Cool!
@@sekoseko4439 I- what?
Don’t worry I have been marking the comments as spam
That's what I got too.
Same
Me: Has never watched TV in the past decade
Also Me: Nice
Your TV is studying you
“My browsing history is same”
"Your search history will be exposed."
Me, who uses incognito mode: Are you sure about that?
@@sekoseko2165 shut
Same
You know your Internet provider can still see all your search history even if you delete it right?